Best Of: Low-Cut Shirts And Turtlenecks

Erin Davis 01/04/13 | Twitter: @ErinGraffiti
Category: Guys ; 85 comments

From the LYWB.com team: It's our fifth birthday here on the blog. To celebrate we are featuring the "best of" the blog all month. This post on modesty sure got you talking. With 275 comments, it's clear that the subject of what to wear is buzz worthy!

young woman looking at clothesThere's been a lot of discussion lately about whether or not fashion matters. Here is a sampling of the comments we've received.

I just read the book, and it is kinda of just dumb. It really says stuff that isn't true, like hinting sex of like wearing too low of shirts or maybe even looking at the Abercrombie picture too many times. Oh please. This is pathetic. The world isn't perfect and if you keep saying all this stuff girls are gonna believe it.

The world isn't perfect. Nobody's trying to make it that way. It's impossible. What I think (even though I got angry when I read it at first, because I misunderstood) is that they say wearing low-cut shirts with the intention of impressing boys is when it's wrong. I don't think that the authors mean you can't look at the Abercrombie poster. It means that you shouldn't lust after the guys on it.

I think there is nothing wrong with wearing low-cut shirts. I'm not gonna sit there in my room and wear a low-cut shirt because I shouldn't wear it in public. Why should I just wear stupid turtlenecks the rest of my life? I think girls should be able to wear what they want. It's their self-expression. [As for] impressing boys, well it doesn't really matter. I wouldn't think because you're only impressing them if you put your self out there.  

I think that we should be able to wear what we want, and no one's really telling us we can't. Go ahead; wear what you want to. Just make sure that your intentions are pure while doing it.

I have to admit, these comments have frustrated me. I've been around enough guys to know that the idea that's "it's just fashion" simply isn't true. Our bodies have powerful effects on guys. But I knew that you couldn't just hear that from me. What you needed was to hear the truth from a guy.

In walks Scott Kirchner. Scott is a good friend of ours and a member of the youth group that my husband pastors. He is also a catch! He is handsome, funny, and smart. He will graduate next month with a college degree at the tender age of eighteen! Most importantly, he is passionate about Jesus.

Earlier this week, Scott joined my husband and I for lunch. We started talking about this blog. I told him about the recent flurry of comments on the topic of modest (and immodest) fashion. He certainly had an opinion on the subject. I thought his insights were honest and powerful. So I asked him to share them with all of you. Here's what he had to say:

Okay, so it is hard enough to keep away from sexual immorality as it is, I don't need any more stumbling blocks set in front of me. What I am saying is that even though your intentions might be as pure as a warm sunny day with daisies blooming, I am sitting here trying not to look at you in a lustful way, because first it is degrading to you for me to think of you like that and second Jesus Christ Himself said in Matthew 5:27–30 that if anyone looks at a woman lustfully he has committed adultery. (This also applies if you girls are looking at guys.)

So while you might not have any problem putting on a shirt that shows your cleavage, you are causing me and probably nine out of ten guys to lust after you and sin by going directly against what Christ said. When you dress immodestly it hurts others, maybe not physically but spiritually, which is way worse.

Romans 14:13 says, "Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."   

Let's take a look at another verse. First Corinthians 8:913 says, "Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge.  When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall."

Okay so this is talking about food, I know, but it applies to everything. Paul is using food in this instance because this is what the Corinthians were doing wrong. But let's take this and replace "what I eat" with "what I wear" in verse 13. It would say, "Therefore, if what I wear causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never dress immodestly again, so that I will not cause him to fall." I am telling you these things so you can realize when you are causing others to fall. There are others that you have to look at before you look at yourself. Pretty much everyone needs to come before you, so wearing low-cut shirts or skirts at all is inappropriate unless you are wearing them when you are just with the person you are married to. 


Oh and it would be awesome if girls would wear turtlenecks that were really baggy so you could actually get to know them and talk to them instead of just wanting to know them because they're hot, but lucky for you girls there are really cute and attractive clothes that don't show me everything in the world. I think it is much more attractive for a girl to not show everything, because then there are opportunities to actually talk to a person out of real desire to know them rather than a physical desire.

I don't even like it when chicks wear that short stuff because I don't need that temptation. If I don't know a girl and I see her in a miniskirt and low-cut shirt, there is no way for me to know that she isn't putting herself out there. Are you going to wear a sign with your skimpy outfit that says "Oh hey, by the way, I'm not looking for attention even though my clothes may show that image"?

God has given you this body and it is meant only for one man, and from a guy's opinion I don't want other dudes to see my girlfriend's body. I don't know if this girl is going to be my wife, but I do know that she is going to be someone's wife, and while I hope she is mine I don't want to see her body either because I don't know if she is going to be mine or some other guy's. I don't want to ruin some other guy's future. You really have to look at the big picture and see who is being affected now or possibly in the future.

But we have to talk about purity for a second. Purity isn't about just lust or sex; it is also about what you are listening to on your radio or what you are saying to your friends or whatever it might be.

Let's go to the Bible, because it is the book to reference if there is a question on what to do. Ephesians 4:1719 says, "So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the softening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more."

I would encourage you to soften your hearts and gain a sensitivity and understanding of what is pure in all aspects of your life and what is impure. Throw the impure things out, and forget about it and forget what others may think (Matt. 10:28). Also, check out Ephesians 4:2932 and 518.

Okay now if you are bumming out because you are saying "Oh no! I do all that stuff and it's wrong," good news is ahead. God can renew your purity. Romans 12:12 says, "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will ishis good, pleasing and perfect will." You have to be holy and pleasing to the Lord.

So don't get me wrongwe all sin and continue in sin, but we should be striving to be no longer in sin. So try and live this out in your life. I think that that is awesome!!

Comments

HEY, GIRLS! We love hearing from you, but feel limited in the ways we can help. For one thing, we’re not trained counselors. If you’re seeking counsel, we encourage you to talk to your pastor or a godly woman in your life as they’ll know more details and can provide you with ongoing accountability and help. Also, the following comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Revive Our Hearts. We reserve the right to remove comments which might be unhelpful, unsuitable, or inappropriate.

    Amanda
    Thanks
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 1:35 am
    I feel a lot of pressure from family and friends about my dress. I feel like all they ever do is criticizes me and what I wear. Throwing the fact that they dress more conservatively and don't think I'm conservative enough. But you really touched on the fact that we should look to the Bible and not to man's opinion to set our standard. I loved the "what I eat/what I wear" example! Thanks so much for posting this, you guys help teen girls way more than you realize. Thanks again,
    Amanda
    Shaley
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 1:47 am
    Wow. Thank you so much for posting this! I really needed it! I always thought that I had to dress immodestly to get a guy. But I realize that it is so wrong for me to dress that way..its making guys sin. And I don't want that. I am going to really try to not dress immodestly!
    shirl
    Re: The Best Of . . . Low-Cut Shirts And Turtlenecks
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 2:11 am
    (REPOST) Muhammad Ali's Advice to his daughters:

    An incident transpired when Muhammad Ali’s daughters arrived at his home wearing clothes that were quite revealing.

    Here is the story as told by one of his daughters:

    “When we finally arrived, the chauffeur escorted my younger sister, Laila, and me up to my father’s suite. As usual, he was hiding behind the door waiting to scare us. We exchanged many hugs and kisses as we could possibly give in one day.

    My father took a good look at us. Then he sat me down on his lap and said something that I will never forget. He looked me straight in the eyes and said, “Hana, everything that God made valuable in the world is covered and hard to get to.

    Where do you find diamonds? Deep down in the ground, covered and protected.

    Where do you find pearls? Deep down at the bottom of the ocean, covered up and protected in a beautiful shell.

    Where do you find gold? Way down in the mine, covered over with layers and layers of rock. You’ve got to work hard to get to them.”

    He looked at me with serious eyes. “Your body is sacred. You’re far more precious than diamonds and pearls, and you should be covered too.”
    Kate
    Amen!
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 5:49 am
    @ Shirl - awesome comment/story about Muhammad Ali! Love it! :)
    On a more general note - very cool post etc. Thanks for the reminder :) and girls, I'll say a big amen to this and let you know it's true; if you love the fella's around you and in your life, don't go out of your way to make things harder for them by dressing scantily. Surprisingly, it is possible to find decent clothes, look good and be comfortable. You just have to make up your mind on it :)
    How you dress and act is between you and God sisters, but please listen to wisdom and truth such as this when you come across it.
    Kari
    Re: Amanda
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 7:25 am
    I know how you feel. My mom is constantly nagging me that my cami or bra strap is sticking out. I try my best to be modest but the pressure from my family is sometimes too much.
    I love those bible verses!
    Thanks
    Emma
    Great post!
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 8:30 am
    Thank you so much for this post!! It's really nice to hear from a Christian guy, the type of guy I should be looking for, about his view on modesty. I totally agree! I've read other things written by guys begging girls to dress modestly, and my Dad has told me a lot that guys are very visual, so it's hard for them to turn their eyes away. My family has always pushed modesty and I really want to be a pure woman of Christ that doesn't cause other people to stumble. So I don't wear revealing clothes and I know that's the right thing to do, but sometimes it's really hard to see my friends wearing really skimpy stuff and getting noticed by the Christian guys I want to notice me. I know I should find my worth and value in Jesus and not guys or popularity, but it can be sometimes because God put in us a desire for marriage. I really like fashion and sometimes I have the temptation to just be like everybody else. That said I really want to be a good example to my friends. Sometimes I just stand in the front of the guys I know and my girl friends and yell " Stop, turn away it's a trap!!" :D

    But anyway I'm sticking to modesty because I want to be completely to devoted to my very best friend Jesus and I want guys to be able to stick close to Jesus without us girls getting in the way. But one question: I know we should be covered, but is it ok if we wear cute, fun, fitted clothes and for guys to think we are pretty? ( ok that was kind of two questions) I know a great Christian guy should like for who I am on the inside, but is it wrong for a guy to like also because of the way I look? U don't want to just be trying to hook guys, but I enjoy fashion and don't want to have to be frumpy dumpy. I know I shouldn't wear SUPER tight clothes, but is it wrong to wear clothes that show our curves? I've always worn boot cut or flare jeans but everyone else it seems wear skinny jeans. Could I wear not super tight but fitted skinny jeans? I think most skinny jeans that aren't way too tight and uncomfortable are cute and fun and so are tops. Is there any line or rule for all this? I really want todo what's right but I want to be fashionable too. Thank you, this blog has helped me so much!
    Emmy
    Thank you
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 10:29 am
    Thank you for the fresh look! It was way better to hear it from a guy who looks for a Godly girl to one day marry, than a book or article stating you are a bad person if you do or don't do these things.
    Thanks!!
    Cat
    HELP! Struggles with shirts & and uniform skirts.
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 11:01 am
    My dad comes from a culture that is ummm very open to showing lots of skin and my mom comes from a very conservative American background. So that leaves me very confused about my standards for modesty. Thanks for this post! It showed me God's standards. Also, my dad says it's no big deal, so it's good to hear from another guy's perspective on the matter.

    Lately I've been kind of lazy regarding my shirts. I have been ummm blessed??? So shirts that my friends could wear with no problem show way too much of me up top. I'm reminded this every time I try on clothes or dresses with my friends at stores. This is kind of frustrating because most camis and tank tops underneath shirts don't help at all. When I'm feeling modest I wear a fitted t-shirt under my shirt but that gets tiring. Does anyone have fashion tips so I can be modest without just wearing turtlenecks & t-shirts?

    Also, I've been dealing with this issue at school. I just started at a high new school. It's a uniformed Catholic school so I thought modesty wouldn't be a problem. Except girls roll their skirts up so high. Like unbelievably high. Like seven inches above the knee at least. They're miniskirt size but have tights underneath so teachers don't care.

    The basketball star of the school and I met when I first came and he immediately started flirting with me. And he was all like "So newbie, I guess you've noticed that girls here roll their skirts up. Do that and you'll fit in." I rolled my eyes and answered, "oh please, I'm not here to sell myself!" He didn't have anything to say to that, so he changed the subject.

    But eventually, I started rolling my skirt up. I guess my reasoning was, isn't the whole point of uniforms anyway? That everyone's uniform? And if everyone is doing it then it's not like you'll stand out to guys? Right? And I'm so concerned about my chest I didn't have set standards then when it comes to my legs. I used to do ballet, and then I'd just wear a leotard with tights to practice. Same thing? Right?

    But then I saw a picture of me and I realized how high it was. It didn't look classy at all. We're not supposed to conform to this world right? Even at a uniformed school? Even if you're a new kid and you want to fit in and not stand out as that kid who doesn't know what's going on?

    So maybe I'm not going to grab that attention of the basketball star that's okay. I'm alright with that. I want a guy to come up and compliment me for my modesty, if there's a guy like that in this messed up school. I'm just concerned that everyone else is going to label me off as a nerd or awkward and inadaptable. What do you think?
    Should I be uniform or modest?
    Kat
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 11:10 am
    That was an awesome blog! Thanks! Just one question: in today's world, many guys don't speak to you and don't want to talk to you if you aren't wearing clothing that makes you look cute. So if i just wanted to be friends with a guy, but that guy won't talk to me because i don't look "sexy" enough for him, what do i do? My family has rules about what i can wear and can't but a lot of the time i feel like guys don't talk to me because i'm not pretty enough.
    Heidi
    Question
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 11:15 am
    I have a question. He said that it's ok to wear low-cut outfits when you are alone with your husband, which I would agree with, but then why did Dannah choose her modest pajamas on her wedding night and why did I hear once that you still have boundaries after your married? Can someone please tell me what those boundaries are? I'd really appreciate it.
    Cat
    Help! My struggles with shirts & uniform skirts.
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 11:20 am
    My dad comes from a culture that is ummm very open to showing lots of skin and my mom comes from a very conservative American background. So that leaves me very confused about my standards for modesty. Thanks for this post! It showed me God's standards. Also, my dad says it's no big deal, so it's good to hear from another guy's perspective on the matter.

    Lately I've been kind of lazy regarding my shirts. I have been ummm blessed??? So shirts that my friends could wear with no problem show way too much of me up top. I'm reminded this every time I try on clothes or dresses with my friends at stores. This is kind of frustrating because most camis and tank tops underneath shirts don't help at all. When I'm feeling modest I wear a fitted t-shirt under my shirt but that gets tiring. Does anyone have fashion tips so I can be modest without just wearing turtlenecks & t-shirts?

    Also, I've been dealing with this issue at school. I just started at a new high school. It's a uniformed Catholic school so I thought modesty wouldn't be a problem. Except girls roll their skirts up so high. Like unbelievably high. Like seven inches above the knee at least. They're miniskirt size but have tights underneath so teachers don't care.

    The basketball star of the school and I met when I first came and he immediately started flirting with me. And he was all like "So newbie, I guess you've noticed that girls here roll their skirts up. Do that and you'll fit in." I rolled my eyes and answered, "oh please, I'm not here to sell myself!" He didn't have anything to say to that, so he changed the subject.

    But eventually, I started rolling my skirt up. I guess my reasoning was, isn't the whole point of uniforms anyway? That everyone's uniform? And if everyone is doing it then it's not like you'll stand out to guys? Right? And I'm so concerned about my chest I didn't have set standards then when it comes to my legs. I used to do ballet, and then I'd just wear a leotard with tights to practice. Same thing? Right?

    But then I saw a picture of me and I realized how high it was. It didn't look classy at all. We're not supposed to conform to this world right? Even at a uniformed school? Even if you're a new kid and you want to fit in and not stand out as that kid who doesn't know what's going on?

    So maybe I'm not going to grab that attention of the basketball star that's okay. I'm alright with that. I want a guy to come up and compliment me for my modesty, if there's a guy like that in this messed up school. I'm just concerned that everyone else is going to label me off as a nerd or awkward and inadaptable. What do you think?
    Should I be uniform or modest?
    k
    Re: Cat, and Kat
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 2:36 pm
    Cat: You know what, I think you need to not roll up your skirt. I think that too short mini skirts are probably just as much a temptation for guys as low cut shirts are.
    Kat: That guy is not going to be a good friend for you. It's hard, but you shouldn't compromise your standards. There are billions of guys in the world; this particular one shouldn't cause you to dishonor God and your parents by breaking the rules.
    Cat and Kat: It's not that God will not forgive either of you if you fall in the area of modesty. But, God has the best plan for your life. He is your Creator; He designed you for a purpose, and every command in the Bible is there for a reason. God is bigger than any guy, any school, and any situation you will ever face. If you obey Him , He will bless you more than you can imagine.
    k
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 2:38 pm
    I wonder the same thing as Heidi.

    Also, about 10 years ago, this guy named Devin Swecker wrote a very impactful letter, which deals with modesty. I would encourage everyone to look it up.
    Question
    What about working out and clothing?
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 2:54 pm
    Hi!
    Thank-you so much for this! I have a question. Have you ever heard of Jazzercise? I absolutely love it, and it's a secular work-out program. I don't mean any harm, but is it wrong to tell some guys you like to work out?

    If they are talking on the same subject. I'm usually thinking there's no harm in saying anything but then I wonder. Jazzercise is a work-out program only for girls. What do you think?

    I try to be very careful about what I wear every-where else. But when I go to Jazzercise, I don't really care because it's all girls. What do you think? Thank-you!
    Bell
    Cat
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    Hey @cat ! Looks like God is leaning towards the right choice for you- Jesus tells us that we are in this world but not of it and truthfully, if we follow Him, we will stick out sometimes but you're reward will be a gillion times greater in heaven! I will be praying for you <3
    -your sister in Christ
    Laura
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 5:36 pm
    Great post, but I have been wondering... Most of the focus of the modesty issue seems to be focused on men being visual and women dressing modestly. I know that this is the purpose of this particular post and I totally agree, I'm just curious as to why (in general) the visual side of women is often unaddressed or not taken as seriously. I am a visual girl and I can fall into the same sins due to immodesty that men can. Yet shirtless men don't seem to be viewed in the same manner as women in low-cut tops. I'm just curious to hear some other thoughts on this subject.
    simone
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 6:01 pm
    Men will cheat whether women wear low cut blouses or are covered from head to toe. Are you women for real? My husband of 30 years loves his Playboy magazine, but he loves me MORE..Don't you get it? Men like looking at naked women, it turns them on...it improves your marriage..You cannot make them into something they are not, it only makes them want it more...Lust is good for the soul..I bet all your husbands are cheating on you anyway because you are too uptight...Being sexy is not a sin..
    JoAnn
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 7:12 pm
    I really like this post. Modesty is very important to me. The Bible commands us to be modest. It doesn't spell out how we have to do it. I love the freedom I have with following the Bible. I only wear sweat pants to bed or underneath my dress to help keep me warm if it is extra cold outside. My parents want me to wear dresses so I do. I think I would choose dresses anyway because I have a little more room than if I would wear pants and shirt.
    @ Cat Please be modest. It is hard to go against the flow but God will be honored if you obey Him. Remember we are responsible if we cause a guy to sin because our dress.
    AJ
    RE: Cat
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 8:18 pm
    Hey there, sister!! Sounds like your Creator and Savior is tugging on your heart. I've learned that anytime the Potter (see Isaiah 64:8) is trying to mold us more and more into His image, sometimes He has to press on sensitive, difficult, or even hard-hearted areas. In my life, those areas are sometimes a family member nagging and annoying me constantly about something day after day. Sometimes it's a burden in my heart that won't leave. Sometimes it's temptations to think about things I shouldn't all the time. In each area, God is allowing a pressure in my life that, when I give it over to Him, He will use to mold me a little more into the image of my Savior Jesus Christ. How can I be so sure this is what God is doing? Well, take a peek at Romans 8:28-29, "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God , to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren..." Sister, God is putting pressure on your heart, and it sounds like deep down you know this. There's nothing more rewarding than answering the call of God--whether that call is the call of salvation, the call to love, the call to dress modestly...whatever it is, answer His call to be conformed to the image of Christ. You will surely be blessed. It may not feel good right away, but, remember, God is working ALL things together for your good if you love Him and are called according to His purpose. (Also take a look at Revelation 3:20.) One more thing...taking your focus off of the men around you, the temporary things around you, and putting them on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of your faith, the Eternal God, will give you a beautiful perspective that can overcome the burdens you are fighting with. (Read Hebrews 12:2, 2 Corinthians 4:17-18, Psalm 37:4) Answer His call, focus on Jesus...you will be blessed!! Love ya, sister!
    Vanilla
    Re:
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 8:33 pm
    Please tell Scott thank you! He sounds like a nice Christian guy and it's great to hear his opinion.
    I really liked that he said that there were "really cute and attractive clothes that don't show me everything in the world". It's good to see that guys don't always think that modest = frumpy/out of style/not cute.
    Vanilla
    Another helpful link
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 8:40 pm
    This survey can also be helpful when trying to determine what Christian guys think is modest/ what causes them to stumble.
    Janice
    @Simone
    on Friday, January 4, 2013 at 11:09 pm
    It is definitely true that sometimes, men will cheat on the most modest girls. But in my life time I've seen many strong marriges that don't derive from taking pleasure in women and men other than the two that are in the relationships.

    But I understand where you are coming from, and I admit sometimes I go quite far to get a guy's attention. And at that moment you feel 'loved' and it's like your self-esteem goes way up.
    But too often have I often felt hurt and used. Too often have girls felt that they are nothing more than their looks and body. When deep down inside, God created us as intimate creatures. Faithful to another.
    Lust will have it's own consequences and we all have to be accountable for God to it. I believe that God has created you so that you are the only one pursued by your lover. Not anyone else! We all struggle with purity, but I believe it's so worth it :)
    Feel free to keep asking us girls more questions. I believe God wants to best for you.

    Love Janice
    Autumn
    REPLY :(
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 12:46 am
    I have the same question Heidi has.
    Meg
    Re: Simone
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 2:18 am
    I would disagree with you on several things.
    1. Porn hurts everyone to do with it. It's addictive, it desensitizes you to real sex, and spreads lies about intimacy. You should read this post, on porn. http://www.liesyoungwomenbelieve.com/index.php?id=1835

    2. It's not about whether men cheat, it's about whether they stumble. I remember too much, so hanging out with people who talk about sex a lot was something I had to stop doing, because it led me to stumble into a huge mess. No lust, not just not acting on lust is the standard to which we must adhere, and yes, that is a very tall order.

    3. He doesn't love you most, he loves himself most. When he looks at Playboy, he is cheating on you in his heart.

    4. Lust is terrible for the soul. To lust is to literally give yourself over to your animal instincts. Lust is an absence of love and tenderness; it is the idea that you want sex over all other things. Rape is lustful.
    That being said, desire is not a bad thing, but only for one's spouse in a marriage, and only when coupled with real love, and your husband can't really love a photograph.

    4. Most people reading this blog are unmarried. This post is not even about married life or porn. It is intended for teenage girls like myself. I am 100% sure that my husband isn't cheating on me, because I don't have one. This isn't about modesty in a marriage, it's about not showing everything off to everyone, and about helping boys our age to keep from struggling with lust problems, masturbation problems, ect...

    5. When you said, "being sexy isn't a sin," you were right. In a marriage, there is nothing wrong with showing a little (or more than a little) skin when it's just the two of you. The point is that even then, you want to make sure that no one else struggles because of what you're wearing.

    I'm praying for you. :-)
    -Meg
    nee
    Lust
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 8:28 am
    Hi I am Nee and I am in a relationship with a sweet guy who cares about me and he seems very committed. We agree that people shall not sleep around until marriage and I bought him a purity ring for Christmas. One problem though he has seen my top part before and he said that they do not cause him to sin but I am still not sure if he was completely honest about that...and I am a bit concerned maybe i shall help him realize its not proper for girls to show off their skin no matter if they are our boyfriends or not.
    Mattea
    Re:
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 8:41 am
    My mind is full right now! I mean, WOW! I guess I don't understand what is really happening in a guy's mind! I mean, that's GROSS!! It is hard to be modest when it seems like NO ONE else is!! Even Christian girls dress horribly sometimes! I have a friend at my church who is ALWAYS showing off her chest and wearing really short mini skirts! How should I approach her? Please help! I don't want her to attract the wrong types of guys!
    Thanks so much LYWB!
    Vanilla
    Here's the link!
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 9:41 am
    Sorry, I totally meant to include this in my last post! But here's a link to the "modesty survey".
    http://www.therebelution.com/blog/2007/02/the-modesty-survey-results/
    Phillipa
    @ Heidi
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 12:17 pm
    I'm only in high school and plan to wait until after I'm married to have sex, but my parents have told me that anything is okay to do with your spouse. As long as it is only the two of you, and if it doesn't cause any physical or emotional harm, then it would just be two people enjoying what God intended for them to enjoy. It's not like there is a how-to guide in the Bible. I think that a married couple is free to explore how they wish. However, my parents also told me that if you are doing something that just feels wrong, then it probably is.... So I would keep that in mind too. I hope this helps :)
    Jen
    how do i deal with immodest friends?
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 12:41 pm
    i have a lot of really classy cool great christian friends that i really love and they really love me back.
    for my mom, its a huge issue that i be modest. literally, when i saw this post i immediately thought of the 15 turtlenecks i have in my closet
    don't worry i have nice pretty clothes too but i don't think i have a problem with modesty
    but my friends they wear short shorts and low cut and they think its ok and that they are still being modest
    what do i say?
    how do i broach the topic?
    it got really awkward in the summer because we were in youth group and every single one of them was wearing short shorts and i wasn't and i saw a guy just literally staring at their legs while the guy was preaching
    what do i do?
    i don't want to preach to them or seem like i am better than them because i am not
    yeesh sometimes i dress like a grandma in order to not seem immodest
    how do i talk to them?
    or should i just pray?
    Anon
    Heidi
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 12:48 pm
    Heidi, I have read "And the Bride Wore White" also, and that instance where Dannah chose modesty even after her wedding came to mind. I don't have all the answers of course, but something came to mind. Later on in the book, there is a chapter that is about keeping your husband pursuing you. I believe that in marriage, husbands and wives should be able to experience complete intimacy. However, I will say from my unmarried status that I believe it is so important for the husband to continue chasing the wife. Just because he married her, and he was able to win this prize, doesn't mean that it she is not something to keep working for. I hope that made sense...
    Karissa
    We need to see it through their eyes
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    So thankful for this post! I'm sure many girls read what he had to say with a critical eye thinking, "well I can't control if another person sins or not," or "my clothes are self expression, what they are 'saying' isn't that big a deal." But both those statements are so wrong. Guys already have it hard enough with what the world is throwing at them, why would we want to make it harder for them as Christian sisters in the faith? And if someone could actually say "I'm not trying to send a message through what I'm wearing." they are lying to others and themselves. I am 23 years old and in full time ministry, and I know I still even want to send a message. My "carnal" side wants to get a reaction out of guys and make them notice me, but the way you dress really does capture a certain audience. If you dress trashy, you're going to attract trash. If you dress classy, you're going to attract class (and probably still some trash too). So what crowd are you dressing for? What reaction are your clothes causing? Sorry, @Scott, I didn't mean to "re-preach" your letter to us, but I hope girls will really learn from what you said. Thank you!
    Karissa
    @Meg
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 2:15 pm
    I love all that you said. You are extremely wise for your age! Keep it up.
    FatherOf4
    Re:
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 9:12 pm
    I'm neither young, nor a woman, but I'm certain this idea of modesty protecting men from lust is another lie young women (and men) believe. It doesn't follow the whole of Scripture. Was Jesus tempted by a scantily clad woman which, according to some, would 'cause' him to sin? (No recorded evidence) Did Jesus ever see a scantily clad woman to perchance be tempted by her? (Yes - John 8) Can someone else cause me to sin? (No - James 1). We, men, have it hard, primarily because we believe the same lie. "If she wasn't dressed in such a manner, I wouldn't be tempted. However, since I am tempted, it's her fault for my sin and God, you're not blameless either, as you made her attractive." It's not much different than Adam's reaction in Genesis 3.
    Dressing in such a way to minimize temptation of others is a fruitless task (Colossians 2) (See also Saudi Arabia)
    (I'm firmly aware of I Timothy 2, but as that verse is referring to displaying overt wealth, it doesn't apply.)
    Rachel
    Simone
    on Saturday, January 5, 2013 at 9:33 pm
    Well put Meg. And while I suspect Simone will not be returning to read this, I wanted to say it anyway. Dr. John Gray references several studies done on the brain in his books, and basically, love comes in two hormonal stages- adrenaline (excitement) and oxytocin (bonded love). Surveys rate the latter as much more satisfying. But what the studies found was that introducing adrenaline for another mate (even artificially through pictures or video) robbed the brain of oxytocin for the former one. Simone, I won't argue with your claim that he loves you more, but it can be scientifically measured that each and every time he looks at porn, oxytocin is eradicated from his system and he (literally) loves you slightly less.

    Back to the original post- I once read that immodesty was when how you looked was louder than what you had to say. A teacher demonstrated by wearing a caterpillar hat and reading a bible verse, then asking if anyone could tell her what she had just read. Nobody could, LOL. Your skin is LOUD! Why would you want to compete with yourself for a guys attention like that? If your clothes (or lack thereof) are doing the talking, he can't hear your mouth. God wants our voices HEARD! You look at typical tribal communities where nudity is the norm, and women are basically traded like cattle. Their voices are not heard. Now we have a society where we protect humans from mistreatment (as we should) but it seems like some women use that as a license to take pleasure in flaunting their skin like a power trip. It's like an immature kid who has learned they can scream in your ear all day long and there is nothing you can do about it. Skin is loud to the eyes. We need to grow up and not put it on others to ignore what our outfits are saying. It's so immature to not think we are responsible for what our skin says. And obviously it would be rude to assume guys are all getting turned on. As a girl, I find the volume of other girls flesh annoyingly loud. I assume plenty of men are in the same boat, and just don't like the eye racket.

    In that context, of course its all right in bed with ones husbands. They are trying to say "sex" then. I like the advice of going with your gut. I don't think you have to be "sexy". Maybe Dannah doesn't feel honored by that energy. People can be "silly", "sweet", "hot", or downright analytical on their wedding night. I like that Dannah has given girls permission to honor themselves, and not force themselves into the mass produced "sexy" image that we are expected to embrace our wedding night. I think that was probably her intent- to just be another voice for the (likely) 3/4ths of girls who won't feel at all comfortable emulating "sexy". There is more than one way to do it right is all.

    Last note- I think we need to look at what immodesty does between girls. Often, we are not dressing immodestly to get a guys attention anyway- we do it to announce to the other girls "this is what I've got". Just like guys claim to play sports to impress girls, they really do it to impress guys. When they are confident that other guys consider them "manly" they can comfortably approach a girl. It's a delicate balance between competition and camaraderie. We, as girls, love to look our best, and want our friends to think we are pretty. Nothing wrong with that, but when we start "taking it off", we are no longer teammates, we are throwing punches. I'm guessing being the hothead who is always getting fouled out of a game doesn't win you bosom friends. Immodesty sets you up as competition to your friends, and even if you are just doing it to fit in, it will end up in the way. Yeah, you can get past it, but biologically we will be suppressing that competitive (or just intimidated) instinct, and we won't be as happy or feel as safe and loved as we potentially could.
    Anonymous
    My mother...
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 12:24 am
    My mother always gets upset and frustrated if I wear something that she doesn't like...even around the house when no one else is home. She yells at me every time, especially in Sunday morning before church. I dress modestly it's just my mom thinks that what I wear express who you are. I know it sort of does but does it really mean enough for one person to get all stressed about?
    Nikki
    @Cat
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 1:13 am
    Cat, I'm not gonna preach to you about how you shouldn't be rolling up your skirt, cause frankly, i'd do the same thing. But reading these posts have made me realise that conforming is so... wrong. Maybe, you can roll it so it's not too short, but not too long either.
    And on your question about dressing in turtlenecks and t-shirts, I have the exact same problem. Turtlenecks make me look like i'm drowning (it probably didn't help since the colour of the shirt was blue...) and I hate t-shirts. But! I found a solution! (well, for me, anyways...) Right now, those button up shirts with the collars are SO in! (in Australia)
    They go up to your chin, they're in style, the look really nice and vintage and they're easy to match with.
    Try them out. Hope this helped... and remember, God won't give you a challenge that he knows you can't get out of.
    x.
    Jillian
    Off topic but desperate
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 1:25 am
    My name is Jillian and for the past six years I've been struggling with a very bad sin. It doesn't matter what I try I just can't seem to shake it! I've posted verses to help me and they do for about a week and then I just go back to the sin. I'm in a continuous loop! I don't have any older woman I can confide in or a friend to confess it to. I need help! I just don't know what to do. I know the Bible says there is no sin I can't overcome with the help of Christ but even when I go to him I still end up falling for the lie over and over again! Please someone help me!!! :'(
    Kari
    @ Jillian
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 3:46 pm
    I know exactly how you feel. This past week I've contacted Focus on the Family for a counselor. I don't know where to go. To make matters worse I lost who I thought was my best friend. I try every morning to not sin, but it does'nt work. I am kinda mad at God right now. And I need help too. I will pray for you, but I don't know how much help I can be to you... :( Sorry.
    Vanilla
    Re: Jillian
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 3:46 pm
    I'm praying for you! Are you involved with a local church? Is there anyone there that could help you?
    Quinn P.
    Eww...
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 4:04 pm
    I can't stand wearing low shirts. It makes me fell open and exposed. Feeling more of that around boys.
    kira
    Boys
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 5:34 pm
    I think this post is absolutely right, but I also think that guys need to do the same thing. Like someone said, it's very strange how sometimes people accept guys walking around shirtless, but if a girl wears a low cut top, they call her out instantly. That said, I totally agree with this post. I would say a rule of thumb is, if it makes you feel exposed, then find something else.
    Kari
    @Vanilla & @ Jillian
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 6:05 pm
    Sorry, I feel so stupid for forgeting that. I totally agree with vanilla. Go to your church, or even your youth pastor. I can't because I have men pastors and youth pastors, but go to someone. Some churches have counselors. You could check into that. You can always ask your mom to help you find someone!
    naty
    heidi
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 9:10 pm
    i have 2 years married and i have to say in this subject i have had a hard learning process. so i have some things to say:
    Heidi: even when you are married the bed is holly and must be kept holly, it doesn not mean not to be sexy, but you know your husband better than no one else (and you dont want to make him sin with lust) , like my husband he had a bad past and i was really hurt, so i keep mysel sexy but i guess in a lovely way.you always can do that :)
    you dont want to look sometimes nasty in the bed that your husband can not see the difference betwing you and a porno star,so everything in equilibrium, sexy-cute and not sexy-dirty and have boundries is important even in the bed, remember we are not animals, we have privileges but too keep the right. God designed sex to enjoy but to glorify him in our bodys. i think this is what danna ment.
    i hope that have help you :)
    naty
    simonein
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 9:17 pm
    i know what porno can do to a man and his family,and i know God can clean a man up and make Him pure , even when 20 years in sin, and make him be faithful and pure in mind and desiring one person forever, and just that one person :).
    love in a couple isnt share (not even with a magazine)porn is being unfaithful, lust is being an animal, being sexy is for your spouse.

    you aand your husband can be just one for each other by the grace of God
    Sara
    Re:
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 9:57 pm
    Erin's friend Scott has a serious problem. To think that what a woman wears makes her somehow available to him or tells him that she's a "loose" woman is the type of language a rapist uses to justify rape. This kind of thinking sexualizes every part of a woman's body, and Scott is objectifying women when he says: "it would be awesome if girls would wear turtlenecks that were really baggy so you could actually get to know them and talk to them instead of just wanting to know them because they're hot." Those words, to me, say that he doesn't view women primarily as people. It is not a woman's fault if a man thinks he can only get to know her if she's dressed in baggy clothes. That points to a moral deficiency on his part.

    And here is another problem-- standards of modesty are subjective. There is no universal standard for modesty. In certain places a woman's elbow, knee, wrist, or ankle is considered "sexual." There have been many rapes in which women were blamed for having bared a "scandalous" part of her body like a wrist, elbow, etc. There is no definitive standard for what is okay and what is not. Lots of Christians even disagree-- some believe in jumpers or dresses only, some believe in skirts and loose tops only, some believe the elbows and knees must always be covered. Well, which is it? Modesty is subjective and cultural.

    Women are people, and we deserve to be treated as people, not sex objects. If a man thinks that he can only get to know me as a person if I'm wearing something baggy, then he has a problem!

    Articles like this one only reinforce the idea that men cannot control themselves. A man is responsible for his own thoughts and for refraining from lust. It doesn't matter whether that woman is dressed in a burka, a potato sack, or a bikini-- if a man wants to lust and objectify, then he will. How a woman dresses is not an excuse for sin and blaming women for a man's inability to control himself is wrong.

    Shame on you, Erin, and Lies Young Women Believe for perpetuating ideas that promote the objectification of women.
    Therine
    Re:
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 10:13 pm
    Sara put this much better than I will, but I figured I'd put my own thoughts out there. I dress for myself, neither to please men nor to "protect" them from lust. I like low cut tops, not because I'm trying to get attention from men, but because I'm more comfortable in them. High necked tops make me feel as though I'm suffocating. If a man thinks I have to dress in baggy clothes for him to get to know me, well...that's a man I don't care to get to know.
    naty
    Sara
    on Sunday, January 6, 2013 at 10:28 pm
    i agree man are responsable for their thoughts but women are responsable for produce and temp them to have thouse thoughts too, each one of us have our own part in blame, and God will judge us for that in a personal way.
    we temp, we sin, they fall in their bad thoguhts they sin too. and we will all be judge by God for our own sin and influences in others. and that is something to think about i think
    T
    Re:
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 12:16 am
    I cannot believe the amount of controversy there is on a post about modesty. I never thought it was this touchy of a topic. I guess I just want to say that I try to dress in a way that is cute but won't cause men to stumble and that I appreciate the fact that there are men like Scott out there who respect women and want us to dress modestly. Thank you Scott for talking to us honestly and putting yourself out there for criticism. I sincerely hope you never change your views.
    simone
    Re:
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 8:35 am
    You cannot change nature. You cannot police everyone and everything to suit some idea you have in your head about how things should be. You will never ever be happy. You will not change human nature. Men like to look at women. Men will always want to look at women, whether they are married or not. It's up to the man if it goes further than that. However, once a man cheats, he will continue to cheat, because it's part of who he is. If you have a strong relationship, he will not cheat because he will have no reason to.

    You are confusing some man made rules with the bible...There are many theologians who look at the bible differently. The fact remains, our sexuality is God-given. God instilled sexuality into both men and women in order to propogate the race. You won't change that even if everyone dresses in potato sacks.

    This whole thing is so lame. You really are just a bunch of bible beaters who think you're doing the right thing. However, what you're doing is unnatural ...the more you try and control a man's mind the further away he will be from you.

    You don't need to pray for me. I'm a well adjuster, happily married women. My husband appreciate a nice looking woman and I'm glad he does! It wouldn't be normal if he didn't. I don't want to turn him into somethng he's not. That's not my job. I accept him as he is.

    I feel sorry for all of you. You will never experience a fulfilling relationship.
    Rae
    Simone
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 12:06 pm
    Simone:
    For one, Janice, Meg, and Rachel said some great things.
    It is very true that when your husband looks at other women in lust, he is cheating on you in his heart.

    As for trying to "suit people" into our own ideas:
    If other women on this site are like me, their views are not their own but God's, coming from His Word. And it would be God, through us, trying to reach out to others and show them the correct path, which is God's path, and not our own.

    As for, "you will never be happy":
    Things of this world with never truly satisfy us and 'make us happy', but if a person accepts Jesus as their Lord, they will realize that He is the reason they are alive, and therefore they are grateful and are content and therefore happy despite troubles and hardships.

    "Men will always want to look at women":
    True, but God is able to give a self-control that will assist in guiding men who give their lives to Him. And although men will still be tempted to look with lust (being the equivalent to committing adultery) at women that are not their wives, God tells us the temptation will never be too much to bear, and therefore it is possible for a man to overcome his own selfish desires and chose not to sin.

    "Once a man cheats, he will continue to cheat":
    This is true, if the man does not attempt to change. You see, if a man accepts The Lord into his heart, he becomes a new creation. His old self is gone, and a new man is in his place.

    I think you are the one confusing the things we say with man-made rules.

    Our sexuality is God-given you say? On the contrary, our sexual desires are our own. God did not give us sinful desires, but asks us to remove our sinful desires and make our desires for Him. And with His help we can do that. He made these things so that we could glorify Him through them, not please our own selfish desires

    We do not try to control any man's mind, but by being reasonably modest in our choices are trying not to hinder him in the way he should go. If a man's mind is focused completely on women and their bodies, where will he find time to grow in Christ and do things of value?

    To reject prayer is a throwing away a HUGE blessing. Prayer is a powerful thing, and can make even the seemingly best life, even better.

    I am thankful to God that you are a "well adjusted, happily married woman" and don't have to face the troubles other women in your situation struggle with whose husband look at pornography. May you have many more years of a happy marriage.
    But there will be trials in everyone's marriage. That is just the way this world has been ever since sin entered into it. Married people should have a firm foundation in their relationship (the best one being God Himself) so that when trials come, the two are well prepared and can keep on loving each other after and even through the hardship.

    If a "fulfilling relationship" is one where my husband is not satisfied with me and my body as the one and ONLY woman in his life, then I don't want one!
    Anonymous
    Jillian
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 12:17 pm
    I am praying for you! Just know that no sin has any hold on you, satan is trying to make you believe that there is, yet there doesn't exist any sin that you can't overcome. It says in John 16, "In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart: I (Jesus) have overcome the world." Give your life and your sin over to God and pray that He will give you strength to overcome!

    Perhaps it is something that you are doing that leads you to sin. If this is the case, consider giving up that thing you enjoy but that causes you to sin.

    I hope you will take the time to read 1 Corinthians 10:13. For in this situation in my life it has become a great help!

    You are a child of the living God!
    ~Love ya, sis!
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Anonymous
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 2:55 pm
    Modesty is a matter of the heart. Have you and your mom sat down and discussed what she thinks is appropriate and why she thinks this? I encourage you to pray about doing this and ask your mom to pray about this, too. Then choose a time when you can discuss modesty and share your thoughts with each other. You might even consider bringing your dad in on the conversation if that is possible. It needs to be a time when neither of you are stressed but can discuss this with the objective of honoring each other, helping each other to understand where you are coming from and for working through this difficulty together in a way that not only draws you closer, but also honors God. I think that waiting until Sunday morning is not a good idea! We need to remember that as believers, we represent Jesus Christ in all we do including the way we dress. I’m praying for you and your mom right now, my friend! I am confident that God will help you through this as you seek His input and His blessing.
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Jillian
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 3:24 pm
    You have been given some very good advice from the girls above. If you don’t feel like you can talk with your mom about this, I, too, encourage you to connect with your youth pastor or pastor and see if they know of an older godly woman that might be willing to meet with you that you can talk to. It will be good for you to have someone in your corner who can speak truth to you, encourage you, pray for you and ask you the hard questions as you seek to put to death your flesh and live the abundant life God has for you. He promises that in every temptation, he will provide a way out so that you can stand up under it (1 Cor. 10:13). Too often we don’t recognize the way out or we simply choose not to take the way out but instead gratify our sinful flesh. If you can discern the lie, then you can find truth in God’s Word to replace the lie. Jesus gave us a great example of using Scripture in our temptations with Satan (Lk. 4). I’m praying for you, Jillian, and asking that the Lord give you discernment and grace (2 Cor. 10:9-10) as you seek to honor Him in all areas of your life.
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Kari
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 3:27 pm
    I’m proud of you for doing what you need to do to get help, Kari! Focus on the Family is a great place to find that help. I encourage you to tell God how you are feeling about the struggles you are having with your friend. He loves you and He can help you through this hard time. I’m praying for you, my friend!
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Laura
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm
    You address a great point, Laura. Women tend to be more “emotional” while guys are “visual”. While most women are not usually as “visual” as guys, there are about 25% of women who are indeed “visual”. You can truly empathize with the struggles guys go through and it gives you great insight as you pray for them and champion modesty among your friends.

    There are those who are aware and are sensitive to both guys and girls in this area. I know some youth groups who require guys and girls to wear shirts at all times and especially at swimming parties. You might consider talking to those involved where you are and see if this might be an option for your group. Do you think you could do that? I’m praying for your courage, Laura, and for your ability to protect your eyes and as you strive for purity.
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Question
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 4:34 pm
    I’m thankful that you are very conscious about modesty, my friend. If there is any chance that a guy would see you in your exercise attire, you need to be considerate about it. For instance, how you dress to and from jazzercise may need to be different than what you wear during jazzercise when there are just girls there. Does that make sense?

    I believe you would need to search your heart about telling someone that you work out. Here are some questions you could ask yourself: Why are you telling them? Is it to draw attention to yourself? Is it a source of pride in your life? What are you hoping to accomplish? Ask God to search your heart about this, my friend. He can be trusted to lead you to do the right thing.
    Carrie, with the LYWB team
    @Kat
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 4:44 pm
    Great question, Kat. Choosing good friends is vital because friends have such a tremendous impact on our lives. Proverbs 12:16 tells us that a righteous person is cautious in friendships.

    Good friends look for ways to encourage, challenge and serve one another. It’s ok not to develop close friendships with those whose primary interest is your physical appearance. In fact, my friend it’s the wise thing to do. Your Creator – the King of the Universe is head-over heels in love with you just the way you are. Rest in His love, my friend! “The king is enthralled by your beauty; honor him, for he is your lord (Ps. 45:10).”
    Kari
    @ Lorree, with the LYWB team
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 4:49 pm
    Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it! Does LYB have any counseling system? I take it they don't I was just curious.
    Carrie, with the LYWB team
    @ Emma
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 5:06 pm
    So proud of you, my friend; you’re a leader in your generation. Thanks for your commitment to modesty. You remind me of what was written of Moses in Hebrews 11:24-26, “By faith Moses, when he had grown up refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; choosing rather to endure ill treatment with the people of God, than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.”

    Yes, there is pleasure in being noticed by guys; but you are choosing the greater thing, my friend. You are honoring your God and the man who will one day be your husband, should the Lord have marriage for you.

    It is indeed possible to be both fashionable and modest, Emma. Some of the most modest young women I know are super-fashionable. Here are a number of past blog posts addressing the issue of modesty and fashion:

    • http://www.liesyoungwomenbelieve.com/index.php?id=114
    • http://www.liesyoungwomenbelieve.com/index.php?id=315
    • http://www.liesyoungwomenbelieve.com/index.php?id=904

    Thanking the Lord for you tonight, Emma.
    @Lorree
    C.Jazzy101-Thank-you!
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 5:34 pm
    Hi Lorree!
    Thank-you very much. I never thought of it that way. That does give me some challenging things to think about. I love it, but perhaps, it's not a good thing to talk about around guys. I never mention, what I wear. And thank-you, I always wear a coat over me when I come home. huh. I really appreciate it. Guys are wired differently then us girls, maybe I shouldn't mention Jazzercise to guys. :I'll pray and think about that!

    Thanks!
    Rachel
    Simone and Sara
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 5:59 pm
    Simone- It's interesting to me that you would accuse this LYWB group of control. Because "control" seems to be what every scantily clad Cosmo cover seems to be about. How to make your man do whatever you want. Modesty is about stepping OUT of the power struggle. It's about letting go of the need to intimidate, attract or control those around us (men and women). It's unloading the gun, sheathing the sword, and letting peaceful relationships grow in God's glory. I agree with you about sexuality- it is God made. It's the most awesome gift he has given us. And true intimacy the way God intended is a pretty religious experience. You claim we can never be happy. I want you to set aside your preconceived notions for a moment and humor the idea that your intimacy might actually increase if there weren't a slew of virtual strangers in your sex life. There would be less adrenaline, yes, but it just might be more satisfying.

    Sara- I respect your angle. My brother feels the same way- that its demeaning to him to say "she" is responsible for "his" thoughts. And if that's what was being said, I would agree. But that is putting a black and white spin on it that isn't justified. We have noise pollution laws, and we have noise etiquette social customs. We have indecent exposure laws, and we have modesty etiquette. We place higher importance on this etiquette because the stakes are higher. Too much noise can only make you deaf. Too much skin can make you sexually deaf- or worse, spiritually deaf. Yes, its complicated. You can't dismiss it simply, or make lump generalizations about its rightness and wrongness. But modesty is given to us to balance the gift of sexuality, and BOTH are wonderful gifts to be used wisely.
    Carrie, with the LYWB team
    @ Cat
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 6:22 pm
    It sounds like you’re a young woman committed to purity, Cat. I’m proud of you for standing strong during the first days/weeks in your new school. I know that’s not always easy, but you chose to bring honor to your Savior.

    It also sounds like the sweet Holy Spirit is graciously reminding you of the need to remain strong in your commitment and to turn away from your decision to compromise. Will it be easy? Probably not. But will you be eternally glad that you did? Absolutely.

    God has chosen you to be blameless and innocent; His daughter who remains above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation (Phil. 2:15). He’ll give you everything you need to stand strong and to be His light to those in this school, Cat. Make Him proud, my friend! Bring Him great glory!

    You might also check out Dannah's post at: http://www.liesyoungwomenbelieve.com/index.php?id=486
    Carrie, with the LYWB team
    @ Heidi, Autumn, K
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm
    Physical intimacy between a husband and wife is one of God’s most precious gifts, girls. These three questions will help you understand a basic biblical basis for your questions.
    • Is it prohibited in Scripture? If not, we may assume it is permitted. (1 Corinthians 6:12)
    • Is it beneficial? Does the practice in any way harm the husband or wife or hinder the sexual relationship? If so, it should be rejected. (1 Corinthians 6:12).
    • Does it involve anyone else? Sexual activity is sanctioned by God for husband and wife only. If a sexual practice involves someone else or becomes public, it is wrong based on Hebrews 13:4 which warns us to keep the marriage bed undefiled. (This would include the fantasy of sexual relations with another individual.)
    Mandie A.
    Thanks Emma
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 6:42 pm
    Thank you so much Emma. I feel the same way too. Thank you soo much for the post! God Bless!
    Cat
    Thanks!
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 7:56 pm
    Thank you for the encouragement & support Nikki, AJ, K, Bell and the LYWB blog team! <3 I took the scripture you shared, and advice to gave to heart and on the first day back from break (today) I wore my school skirt at an appropriate length! :) Felt confident & classy, it's a great feeling! Thanks again!
    P.S. Sorry about my previous post being posted twice. Ooops!
    I don't get it
    Is my body a weapon that attacks only the eyes of men?
    on Monday, January 7, 2013 at 11:53 pm
    He sounds condescending, just saying.
    1. Not everyone is going to be modest so keep your eyes to yourself.
    2. Resist temptation.
    3. Does he dress modestly himself? There should be a guideline as well. I feel like women's bodies are always shameful in a sense and it's quite irritating to hear it on this website as well.

    Don't get me wrong, I think modest dressing is great and I try to dress modestly. Unless wearing skinny jeans is suddenly immodest and everything is immodest. While we're at it, isn't modesty relative? subjective?
    I'm coming off a lot angrier than I wanted to.
    I just feel that women are always being reproached to dress modestly. Men should be told dress modestly as well. Tight V-necks should be off limits to them outside of the marriage home as well. What if women stumble at the some men are dressed?

    Maybe I'm not catching the drift of this article but aren't we free in Christ? Let's not put our subjective burdens onto other people's backs.

    If a woman wearing a low top causes you to stumble, pray harder for a mind that can resist it! Maybe we should stop finding the fault in others and realize that it is our own mindset.

    I understand and agree the fact that women shouldn't dress in a way that will purposely cause someone to sin but give women a break will ya! Sheeesh
    I don't get it
    Pt 2
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 12:43 am
    And please do tell us where you're getting this information from that women are more emotional than men. Please give us some sources and stop perpetuating that ridiculous stereotype.

    As Sara said before, this article is just a small part of the blame the victim of the rapist mentality. Men will lust, it doesn't even matter what you're wearing. Women should dress modestly yes, but not for men, but to honor God's commandments and His laws because they WANT to obey the Lord, not because some random guy is putting his burden on others. And by the way, I am not a "Chick". I am a woman, girl or female. He should start seeing women as people instead of stumbling blocks.

    Shame on you indeed.
    Lilly
    Low-cut shirts and turtle necks
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 7:14 am
    I read this blog a couple of days and have talked about it with my youth pastor and some guys from my youth group.. I have learnt a lot about boys and their hormones, no matter what age they get sexual urges. They had a read of this and agree that there shouldn't be so much blame put on girls, due to social media and what ever else, girls have standards they want to get to, espicially being teenagers, and boys, no matter if they're with God or not cannot help but look at these same pictures we look at, everyone has such high expectaions. They did say honestly, that if there was a girl always dressed in jumpers and trackies, always covering her self up, they wouldn't take much notice of her. I know you're probably thinking now that they're not really the greatest guys, but all of them are perfect exapmples of Christian boys with the Holy spirit alive in them, but were just being honest.
    When girls get ready in the morning they do dress to impress. That doesn't mean I'm supporting the revealing clothing on any level, but just as boys can't control themselves and not look, girls want to get noticed so won't dress in covered clothing. It's also hard for Christians around non christians, because they don't want to make living with God look so boring and without free expression when all we want to do is bring as many people we can to Jesus. If you think about it, if you didn't already have a relationship with God, and all you saw of christians was covered bodies bound by rules, would you really want to join that? no.

    This has been very good and interesting to read and discuss and I hope I'm not the only one with this opinion.
    Erin Davis
    Should guys be modest too?
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 9:49 am
    Hey, girls! I appreciate the dialogue that is happening on this post. Many of you disagree with my stance here, and that's okay. Let me challenge you to take your questions and concerns to God's Word instead of the culture and then, lets keep talking about it.

    Also, many of you have commented that guys should be modest too. I couldn't agree more. I think we have a responsibility as Christians, regardless of gender to always think of how our actions will impact others. However, since the title of this site is liesyoungwomenbelieve.com and since our target is young women, we will always approach this issue as if writing to young women (because we are). I just wanted to clarify that this does not mean we feel that the responsibility for modesty is all on women (not at all!)...just writing to the point of view of our target audience.

    Again, thanks for reading and commenting.

    Erin
    Carrie, with the LYWB team
    @nee
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 3:41 pm
    You’re right, nee; it’s not proper. Physical intimacy is for those who are legally husband and wife and includes visual images as well as physical touch.

    Guard your heart wisely, my friend.
    Carrie, with the LYWB team
    @Cat
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 4:45 pm
    Super proud of you, girl!
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Kari
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 4:58 pm
    No, Kari, we are not trained counselors nor do we offer counseling services. We have a team of women who are happy to answer questions from a biblical perspective. If you have questions that you would like addressed personally, you can send a comment to us at info@reviveourhearts.com (or go to “contact” at the bottom of the blog and send your question to us) and one of us will get back to you.
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Jen
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 6:30 pm
    Prayer is huge as we try to influence our friends, Jen. We cannot convict our friend’s hearts nor change them but we can take them to the One who can through prayer. So yes, you should pray for them – for their discernment, for their courage to do the right thing rather than the popular thing. Ask the Lord to open opportunities to discuss modesty. You might send them a link to blogs that speak to this issue and ask them what they think. Put the questions out there – allow them the opportunity to be challenged in their thinking. It could be that they are simply naďve about how their dress truly affects guys. Could you host a Bible study at your house using the Lies Young Women Believe book – or even the little booklet by Nancy Leigh DeMoss called The Look: Does God Really Care What I Wear? I’m asking the Lord to give you wisdom in how to reach your friends with the truth about this important issue. Thank you, Jen, for loving your friends enough to care about this area of their life!
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Mattea
    on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 at 6:36 pm
    I appreciate your heart to do the right thing and protect your friend. While you cannot change your friend’s actions, you can kindly (not in a condescending way) share with her what you’ve learned here and express your concern for her. Pray for your friend and ask God to give an opportunity to talk to her. Perhaps you could send her the link to this blog and ask her what her thoughts are about this.

    You are right. It is hard to do the right thing when “no one” else does. But God will honor your desire to obey Him and to dress modestly. Read what I recommended to Jen, too. Those would be good ideas for you and your friend (and other girls, too) to do together. I’m praying and asking God to give you wisdom in how to demonstrate your love and concern to your friend.
    Sara
    reply to Erin
    on Thursday, January 10, 2013 at 10:21 pm
    Hi Erin,
    Thanks for your reply. I always enjoy a thoughtful dialogue, whether we can find agreement on the issue or not (hopefully we can!).

    You mentioned that we should look to the Bible for answers, rather than culture, and I agree with you. I looked up the instances in which modesty for women is addressed in the Bible. I found two main passages. First, is 1 Timothy 2:9, which tells women to dress modestly and with self control, to avoid braiding hair and wearing costly jewels. Now, read in context, I believe that dressing modestly does not mean "covering up" but rather means not dressing ostentatiously. It seems that Paul is referring to women dressing over the top-- trying to appear extremely wealthy or draw attention to themselves. He doesn't mention low-cut tops or short hemlines. And he doesn't mention keeping men from stumbling. He talks about hair and jewels. Maybe men at that time were lusting over hair and jewels, but it doesn't seem clear from this passage. It could also be that women were envying each other! We don't know, and this passage doesn't make it clear.

    Similarly, there is a verse in 1 Peter talking about a woman's adorning not being external but rather internal. Again, there is talk about being outwardly ostentatious with braided hair and so on. Most of us wouldn't consider braided hair to be a stumbling block to men, but that is listed in both verses that reference modesty for women! I haven't found anything in the Bible that says women need to "cover up" to avoid being a stumbling block to men. Jesus does address men in Matthew 5, telling them not to lust, but he never addresses women in this passage. He doesn't remind them to dress modestly-- He places the blame solely on the men who are sinning.

    There is also a passage in Romans talking about eating meat versus abstaining because there were arguments about whether meat sacrificed to idols was unclean. To sum up the passage, Paul says that nothing is unclean, but everyone should do what their conscience calls them to do and answer for themselves to God and not judge one another. If anything, this tells us to be lenient with one another and not judge each others' convictions. Yes, it says not to cause another person to stumble, but in context, I believe it refers to purposefully doing something in front of another Christian that the other person considers to be a sin. This, to me, requires the prerequisite of a relationship. I have to know the other Christian I am relating to and understand that he or she considers eating meat or watching an R rated movie to be a sin. I can't be held responsible for some person somewhere who sees me doing something he or she disagrees with (for instance, wearing pants instead of a dress). Everyone has different convictions, and God isn't holding us responsible for adhering to someone else's convictions. Some women feel convicted to wear dresses only or to cover their heads, but God has not convicted me that way, so I have to follow my own conscience. In the case of a Christian who doesn't know me or have a relationship with me, I think Paul makes it clear that it's their responsibility to not judge me, because each of us has to answer to God for ourselves. Similarly, men will have to answer to God for themselves. Each man has something different he finds attractive-- for some men, it's feet, for others it's hair or eyes or legs or whatever. I have to dress within what my conscience tells me, and the rest is up to God. I don't see any clear evidence in the Bible that says anything contrary. If you have other passages, please let me know, so I can read them.

    A woman can't be held responsible for just any man anywhere in the world who might happen to see her and find her attractive and happen to lust. If you say that, then I believe you are actually buying into a cultural lie. This is something our culture promotes which can be termed "rape culture." It is the idea that a woman can somehow bring violence upon herself by acting or dressing in a certain way thereby letting men abdicate responsibility for themselves. It demeans women and lets men off the hook for sinning and viewing women as meat rather than as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. It seems to me that many Christians actually promote this un-Christian idea. Some Christians suggest (whether consciously or not) that women have power over men and how men act by the manner in which women dress. If a person believes this, then he or she is subtly and perhaps unconsciously suggesting that women can control how a man acts toward her and can either prevent lust and/or rape or cause it. This is wrong. Jesus says that lusting is the same as actually sleeping with her (without her consent this is rape)-- but he doesn't blame the woman. It's not her fault. It's the man's fault. Completely his fault.

    I will give you an example of how this translates into real life. You may have heard about the gang rape in India in which a 23 year old woman was raped on a bus and subsequently died from her injuries. The attitudes of some of the police officers who dealt with the case was very telling. They were covertly recorded blaming women for rape, talking about how "everything from fashionable or revealing clothes to having boyfriends to visiting pubs to consuming alcohol to working alongside men as the main reasons for instances of rape.” So, rape culture says that if a woman does anything that steps outside what the appropriate "role" that a man believes is okay for her, then she brings rape upon herself. If she is out alone or wearing something fashionable or whatever, then she is "attracting" that unwanted attention to herself. That is wrong. Please stop buying into this un-Christian attitude of rape culture. Women are responsible only for themselves-- not for the men around them. And men are responsible for their behavior, not for anyone else's. I believe the Bible firmly supports this idea of personal responsibility and does not suggest that women have some kind of mystical power over men that "forces" them to stumble. Let's stop Christianity from buying into false ideas about men and women and their relationships toward each other. Thanks for letting me respond!
    Rae
    Sara: Footnotes 1 Tim 2:9
    on Sunday, January 13, 2013 at 10:28 pm
    "It is not unscriptural for a woman to want to be attractive. Today, however, to what agree should women take this advice about fixing their hair or wearing gold, pearls, or expensive clothes? Paul (apostle) was not prohibiting these things; he was simply saying that women should not be drawing attention to themselves through these things. Modesty and decency are the key words. All women would do well to remember that beauty begin on the inside. A gentle, modest, loving character gives a light to the face that cannot be duplicated by even the best cosmetics. A carefully groomed and well-decorated exterior is artificial and cold unless inner beauty is present. The general rule for both women and men emphasizes that both behavior and dress must express submission to and respect for Jesus Christ. "
    Andrea
    amen
    on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 at 7:46 pm
    AMEN. I can't say amen enough. Modesty not as big an issue for me-I'm mennonite, but I think every girl should here this. It was very refreshing!!!
    Mattea
    @ Lorree
    on Monday, January 21, 2013 at 8:28 am
    Thanks Lorree!
    I will be praying for My friend and maybe I will start a Bible study and invite her! You are an encouragement! :)
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Mattea
    on Monday, January 21, 2013 at 5:07 pm
    Thanks for your kind words, Mattea! Keep on praying for and reaching out to your friend. She is blessed to have you in her life!
    Cheris
    Re:cat
    on Monday, January 21, 2013 at 11:25 pm
    Cat that is so true. It says in Romans 12:2 to not conform to the world. And it is so hard these days. But don't conform!! People will notice you standing out in the crown and you are just leading them to what is right. Be strong!(-:
    Elissa
    Dressing appropriately.
    on Monday, January 28, 2013 at 11:37 pm
    I totally love this message! I loved the book as well! It really opened my eyes! I think another reason why we should dress modestly is because it's not just to respect the people around us, but also respecting ourselves! Alot of Us girls are looking for the right guy that God has for us! And we want to know that how we dress is the man we are going to attract. If you dress modestly a guy will more likely respect you for that and also would probably want to get to know you for the right reasons. Dressing the right way is very important and to some people they might think that the way you dress isn't wrong at all. But in reality, it honestly is very important. It's so sad to watch guys go after a girl who dresses "revealing" and the girl who dresses that way always wonders why guys take advantage of her. Well, the way she is dressing is attracting them for the wrong reasons. We know to protect and guard our heart but also, protect and guard your body physically with the right things, and I guarentee people will have more respect for you!
    Ina
    Re:Lilly
    on Thursday, May 23, 2013 at 8:53 pm
    Boys obviously wouldn't take notice of that kind of girl because she isn't showing anything for them to look at. So if all the girls in your youth group were modest guys wouldn't look at those girls, right? Why would those guys look at those girls in the first place. guys are going to be attracted by two things one of them is beauty and immodesty and the other is your character.
    I don't know how old those guys are but they're probably are not looking to get married yet so they wouldn't be looking at girls in the first place if...
    I hope you understand what I'm trying to say and I pray that God will help you understand.
    Anonymous
    Curious...
    on Wednesday, July 10, 2013 at 12:45 pm
    I realize that this is an old post so I don't even now if anybody will read this but I was wondering about cosmetics. I don't think they're wrong, I don't wear makeup very often and when I do it's out of creativity and not for attracting guys. But I like things like red lipstick because it can look really classy or maybe a bit edgy. Once I read about someone saying a guy thought that liquid lip gloss made him think impure thoughts, which never occurred to me so I'm wondering about cosmetics, especially lip products. Do you think cosmetics like this contradict my strong belief in modesty?
    Lorree, with the LYWB team
    @ Anonymous : Curious
    on Thursday, July 11, 2013 at 12:50 pm
    I appreciate your desire to do the right thing in this, my friend. Modesty, whether in clothing or in makeup, is a matter of the heart and our motivation behind what we wear. Our beauty should come from inside (1 Pet. 3:3-4) rather than what we wear or paint on the outside. I encourage you to pray about this and maybe even ask your mom her opinion. She may be able to help you look deeper into your heart motivation and make sure you aren’t using this edgy lipstick to draw attention to yourself.

    Erin challenged us to do a make-up free week a couple of years ago. Check out her blog: http://www.liesyoungwomenbelieve.com/index.php?id=535.
    Hannah
    Modesty Survey
    on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 at 7:18 pm
    Hello peoples, I don't know if any of you have ever seen this site but it's awesome. This modesty survey they did is very fascinating. I would consider myself modest but some of the survey results really surprised and challenged me. Check it out! >>>http://www.therebelution.com/modestysurvey/

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